Sea Breeze

Joined

• started 268 topics
• posted 3,412 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Sea Breeze

• 
  228

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  @SBF

  If Jesus is not God, then he lied about raising himself from the dead.

  If he raised himself from the dead like he predicted, then he is God.
  
  Either way, your argument loses. You can't have it both ways.
• 
  228

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  @ vienne,

  Yes, we all were taught that scripture by biblical idgits. It is located right next to another scripture a few verses over that says "money is the answer for everything". - Eccl. 10: 19
  
  Why don't you believe money is the answer for everything? I'll tell you why. It's because the book of Eccl presents reasoning from a carnal point of view - "under the sun". The book reminds the reader (nearly 2 dozen times) that this is the point of view of this literary work and is a point of view ultimately rejected by the writer.
  
  Remember, man is a tripartite being according to scripture. When a person dies, his thoughts perish in his body..... under the sun. The physical person (the body) is powered by a supercomputer made of 3 lbs. of meat. That meat will definitely start decaying "under the sun". But, there is another "you". Two more.
  
  Jesus spoke dozens of times about personhood and consciousness after death. Why would you accept a philosophical work confined to the failed ideology of materialism and reject the plain language of a man who said he would resurrect himself from the dead, and then proved he was God by doing it?
  
  Do you also believe Jesus was a liar when he predicted his own self resurrrection?

  In John 10:17–18 Jesus says something that no mere mortal could ever say: “I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again.” No one else in the history of the world has ever had the authority both to lay down his life and to raise it up again.
  
  Furthermore, Jesus said, “I am the resurrection and the life” (John 11:25). He claimed to be the resurrection Himself; He has absolute authority over life and death (Revelation 1:18). Jesus is God. He could say He would raise up His body on the third day because He, being God, has power over death.

  Instead of putting faith in Jesus, WT recruits put faith in the WT organization, themselves, and their long service in distributing WT literature..... anything but Jesus. This allows them to "work with" their sin nature, rather than putting it to death as instructed.
  
  People would definitely rather believe a lie, rather than believe a man who could do miracles and raise himself from the dead.

  Nothing has changed.

  But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. - Luke 19: 14
• 
  228

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  To ask my previous question another way then...once separated, God the Father remained alive and resurrected the dead God the Son?

  The meaning of death is "separation", not non-existence. This is how Jesus could resurrect himself from the dead, while he was still dead.
• 
  228

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  @Halcon

  If simultaneously, then it was two different persons (both God)...one dead and one alive, the one alive resurrecting the dead one?

  In the bible, death means "separation". When your soul, spirit and body are joined - you are alive. When they become separated, you are dead.

  Gen. 35 makes this clear early on in the bible:

  17

  And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.19And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.

  Rachael died as her soul was departing. She was no longer whole. 1 Thess. 5: 23 describes a "whole" person as: the body, soul and spirit. Then, notice how Jesus describes death as the opposite : lack of wholeness. :

  Luke 8 - While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's house, saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master.

  50 But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.

  
  

  When Jesus three componenets of personhood were joined, he was a live. When his spirit (God) separated from his body, he was dead. (Same as anybody else)
  
  
  
• 
  228

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  How else could it be?
• 
  228

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Then, God can die without ceasing to exist?

  Of course.
• 
  228

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  During the last three hours of Jesus’ death on the cross, an unusual darkness struck the land. This darkness was most definitely a result of God's direct intervention, because it can't have been a solar eclipse for the following two reasons:
  

  
  1. The maximum duration for a total solar eclipse is seven minutes, not three hours, and at the latitude of Jerusalem the maximum duration is even less.
  2. A solar eclipse can occur only at new moon, but we know that Jesus was crucified at the time of Passover (Matthew 26:2; Mark 14:1–2,12; Luke 22:1–2, 7; John 13:1), and that the Passover is at the time of full moon (Exodus 12:1–11; Leviticus 23:5).

  The New Testament records the three-hour darkness during Christ’s crucifixion (Matthew 27:45, Mark 15:33, Luke 23:44–45).
  
  But it is also confirmed by four other historians outside the Bible: Phlegon, Thallus, Africanus and Tertullian. These historians attempt to interpret the darkness as a direct effect of a solar eclipse which we know is scientifically not possible - but they wouldn't have known that in their time.

  
  

  
  
• 
  228

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Halcon, SBF and other "believers": My goal is to challenge your logic. It was a severe lack of logic somewhere in our families' history that got us involved in Watchtower. In my case, it all got started by my Sicilian immigrant ancestor who only had at most a 3rd or 4th grade education.
  
  Once a person says they believe in God they have an obligation to think properly, logically... the way God thinks. If something is inconsistent in a line of reasoning, that should be a red flag that one or more of the components in a supposition is incorrect, or very likely to be so.

  Atheists have no such moral imperative and so, you all have probably (rightly so) rejected the miracles that Atheists believe in:

  1. Existence comes from non-existence

  2. Order comes from Chaos

  3. Life comes from non-life

  4. Personal comes from the non-personal

  5. Reason comes from non-reason

  6. Morality comes from matter

  That kind of reasoning is easy to reject. Only a very few have damaged enough minds that can believe in that idiocy. But, how can you continue to hold in high regard a man who in your estimation is a liar? Here are your choices:

  1. Jesus was God and resurrected himself from the dead, while he was dead, just like he predicted. If you believe this, you should be able to explain how a dead person can do this. (You all know the answwer but something is preventing you from accepting it) Or,

  2. Jesus wasn't God, but simply a good and wise teacher that falsely claimed that he would raise himself from the dead. This of course makes him a liar and certainly NOT a good and wise teacher.

  This is one of the many problems with the unitarian view. It is not logical, not consistent and certain to be wrong.

  I'm very curious; What is it exactly that prohibits all you unitarians from accepting the biblical definition (as opposed to the atheist definition) of man? Did you ever hold the biblical definition on the tripartite nature of man? Or, have you all always only accepted the atheist definition?
  
  Edited to add: Vienne, I'd like to hear your comment on the last paragraph above.
  
  
  
• 
  228

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  @ Touch of Grey

  It's for you to provide the undeniable evidence of a miracle worker called jesus

  That's pretty funny.

  BTTT: Why are the atheists answering for the unitarian believers here? Where is SBF ?

  @ Halcon

  Would it be safe to say then, that God did not exist for three days?

  Of course not. How can God not exist since he is self - existing? Doesn't make any sense. So, do you believe that Jesus lied when he said he would resurrect himself from the dedad, while he was still dead?
• 
  228

  The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

  as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

  that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Find me any non-biblical source for the un/supernatural events that surrounded the death of Jesus, you’d think somewhere in the world someone would’ve written about an unplanned solar eclipse, zombies or earthquakes.

  @Anonymous

  Why don't you find it? It's all available at your google finger tips - over a hundred non-biblical sources on the life of Jesus covering the very things you list.

  My challenge is not to atheists who claim to not see any evidence, but it is to the few "believers" on this board who claim to believe in a different Jesus than the one presented in scripture.
  
  If Jesus didn't raise himself from the dead (proving he was God), then he is a liar, a con man and the worst sort of deceiver. And, should be utterly rejected.
  
  Heretics can't have their con man and at the same time hold him in high esteem. This is the fundamental logical error with heretics. They want the Jesus they have created, a supposed "good man" one who is a liar and a deceiver.

  Good men don't lie and deceive.